Never say 'never' ....

[arianna]

I said I'd never do this, which just goes to show what a pushover I am -- it's all Jess's fault for ignoring my rants about LJs and sending me an invitation to join and then ducking for cover. Sigh. Seemed stupid and pigheaded to refuse to be dragged (even if with some proforma kicking and screaming) into the modern era. Everyone I know seems to be here already (no, I'm not a trend-setter -- what was your first clue? ), and I do like to hang out with my friends. So, for better or worse, here I am.

Comments

Re: NOW I'll say it!

[patk.livejournal.com]

>>Honestly, I really don't 'get' the core issue of what's so awful about referring to Blair as either 'a' guide or 'Jim's Guide'.<<

I'm "not so secretly" thinking that's not so much the use of the word itself but what some readers might associate with the word by now.

No doubt that there are a lot of stories out there, which include a more or less fanonical version of Blair's role to Jim's sentinel, with abilities and a kind of connection that goes way beyond whatever we saw at the show. Often this authors tend to use the word "guide/Guide" extensively since this a major thing in their plot.

Now, if a reader likes "close-to-canon" stories (regarding this particular topic) it could easily happen that the reader develops kind of a shortcut in his head: "use of 'guide' = fanonical take on the J/B relationship ahed" = "stay away from it since it's not your taste" from reading a lot of fics that *do* have this relationship-version and use "guide/Guide" extensively.

Which might mean that it's not so much the word itself that throws them out, but the "expectation" of what to see in a story, probably born from experience with certain story-types. :-)

Just a theory. *G*

PatK
:-)

Re: NOW I'll say it!

[caarianna.livejournal.com]

PatK, thanks for responding to my plea for clarification on this issue! I can well understand the aversion to certain types of stories, and the tendency then to link such stories with a key word like 'Guide'. Most of us have certain plot elements that we don't particularly enjoy and might downright dislike a whole lot. For me, it's the weepy, whiny Blair, and equally, the Jim that can't function without his trusty sidekick being ever present. Both of these characterizations have some basis in canon, in that Blair could get pretty scared and run to Jim to be rescued (Survival, Chapel chasing him), and some could have Jim zoning and needing help (or being blind or whatever) -- it's when things are taken to exaggerated levels that I think plot elements begin to grate.

What threw me off in the discussion was the 'absolutism' of some of the perspectives being stated -- the 'this is wrong' and 'shouldn't' be done viewpoints as if the writers are just, well, idiots for not getting their canon clear, or that writers that diverge from canon are by definition wrong -- and that anyone who can't see that the stated viewpoint is 'right' is also verging on being an idiot. Made me wonder what is was that I was missing, that seemed so obvious to just about everyone else in the discussion. Guess I don't like feeling like an idiot, lol -- but, then, I guess there are very few people who would aspire to that particular life goal .

The discussion was certainly fascinating. But pejorative tones tend to make me uncomfortable, I guess, most particularly in a volunteer milieu where there are no stated standards and it's pretty much a free for all, in terms of people writing for fun, not profit. I'm never sure why some feel so viscerally engaged when people fail to follow 'their' vision of what is right, and then feel the need to condemn what doesn't fit their interpretation. I've gotten so uncomfortable, as a matter of fact, that I've been in a sort of retreat from engagement in the fandom, deciding to just focus on writing and posting stories and keeping up with on-line friends, and maybe even spending more time writing for other fandoms. I expect to unsub from all my TS list memberships by the end of this year (except Storyfinders, which is a really good place to find good fic I've never read). I'm hoping this LJ community will be a way of keeping up with on-line friends as well as giving access to more good fic than seems to be available on more traditional lists these days.

In any case, thank you for responding and offering some clarification. Very much appreciated!!

Marilyn/Arianna

Re: NOW I'll say it!

[patk.livejournal.com]

>>I can well understand... ...that I think plot elements begin to grate.<<

Yes, very clearly said and true, IMO.

>>...'absolutism' of some of the perspectives being stated. ...Made me wonder what is was that I was missing,...<<

Frankly, I think you missed nothing. *g* Fact is, people have different tastes and what's one person's delight is another person's disgust. That goes for fanfiction as well as for other matters in life and certainly is as old as the human race. *g*

Personally I think it's just a matter of "expression", the way an opinion or a statement is worded. Not everything uttered with the ring of "absolute truth" actually *is* absolute truth. *ggg* Again, not exactly a "never heard of"-thing in the history of humans.

Some people have the tendency to word their expression in a way that might be intimidating to others, simply *because* it's stated in a dogmatic manner, doesn't make the statement any more true but makes it *sound* more true. *G* And often it's exactly these people who have the courage to express their opinion while the somewhat shyer people say nothing and make themselves not heard. Which might result in the impression, that the "whole fandom" thinks in a certain way if there's no contradictory voice speaking up. :-)

We all know this effect from RL and it's not different in fandom. After all, fandom consists of perfectly normal people, warts, flaws and all. *G*

As a friend of mine stated it once very eloquently: "Fandom is a rabbit breeder club". *g*

>>I'm never sure why some feel so viscerally engaged when people fail to follow 'their' vision of what is right, and then feel the need to condemn what doesn't fit their interpretation.<<

Personally I think that's just a matter of people displaying a typical human behavior. Well, not for all humans, but we know this type of behavior from every aspect of life, dont't we? :-) Fandom consists of hundreds, perhaps even a thousand different people but of course, you (generic) only hear those few who make their voices heard. Doesn't mean the remaining hundreds don't exist or haven't probably other opinions on certain matters. Just means, they don't speak up for a lot of different reasons. :-)

For me, this theory puts things a little into perspective, after all everybody is just "cooking with water", as it's everywhere in life. :-)

PatK
:-)

Re: NOW I'll say it!

[caarianna.livejournal.com]

PatK, yeah, you're so right about everything you just said. It's a good perspective to have, and important to remember, that not everyone comments and because they don't, it doesn't mean they necessarily agree with the points being made. And that we're all simply a slice of life in terms of the mix of people who are within a fandom.

In my RL capacity, I once heard that it is a common female trait to not speak up in public, but to prefer one on one or small group conversations. Not to say no woman will stand up in a large room to give her opinion or ask a question, but the most won't, especially if the environment is the least bit intimidating. At the time, I was working in a dominately male environment (a civilian in a military world) and it used to drive me nuts that conference after conference and large forum after another, I was the only woman who ever got up to the microphones in the audience to engage in dialogue with the panel or speaker. I suppose in some ways, this lists or these open journals also have that 'public feel' for some. In that, I think Bev's got a great idea of having more discussions amongst her 'friends' group as it feels like a more intimate, safer atmosphere to comment.

Thanks so much for your responses to me. I really was afraid of missing something as I'm such a newcomer to LJ and, really, in a lot of ways, to the 'fen' world. I feel much less like I was missing something obvious to everyone but me. (I was, in some ways, but not what I thought I was missing, lol. I was missing the common element of humanity and how we see the diversity of RL reflected here).